[Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

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[Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Chad Smith
I've had a couple of non-lug Chattanooga friends already contact me about the EPB announcement, and they are both asking about routers.

As I understand it, there is no currently available WiFi standard that supports 1 Gbit/s.  N goes up to 300 Mbit/s, and ac goes up to 500 Mbit/s....

So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson, someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or Tomato.)

- Chad W. Smith

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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Rod-Lists
Too bad on the wrt, because if they had an old pci machine they could build a firewall box for a couple of bucks. (FA311's for $1.20 each)
Wouldn't do gig but would do low end 100mbps.

You may laugh at that. But for less than $3 US I can quadruple my net speed. That is a hell of a bargain at the moment.
Sometimes you have to be frugal.


On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:34:05 -0400, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had a couple of non-lug Chattanooga friends already contact me about the EPB announcement, and they are both asking about routers.

As I understand it, there is no currently available WiFi standard that supports 1 Gbit/s.  N goes up to 300 Mbit/s, and ac goes up to 500 Mbit/s....

So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson, someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or Tomato.)

- Chad W. Smith



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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Chad Smith
I know I'm far from the most tech saavy person on this list, but having googled FA311, it looks like that is just an Ethernet port.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question.  What I'm looking for are recommendations for an out-of-the-box wireless (and possibly wired as well, but focus on the wireless) router.

  • Is any off-the-shelf WiFi-N router "good enough" for most people?
  • Is 802.11ac worth the huge jump in cost (from $15~$25 for N to $90 - $300 for AC)?
  • Is the average non-geek even going to come close to 100 Mbit/s much less 1 Gbit/s under any plausible circumstances?
  • Any suggestions I can pass on to these Chattanooga-based EPB users?
Thanks.

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Rod <[hidden email]> wrote:
Too bad on the wrt, because if they had an old pci machine they could build a firewall box for a couple of bucks. (FA311's for $1.20 each)
Wouldn't do gig but would do low end 100mbps.

You may laugh at that. But for less than $3 US I can quadruple my net speed. That is a hell of a bargain at the moment.
Sometimes you have to be frugal.


On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:34:05 -0400, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had a couple of non-lug Chattanooga friends already contact me about the EPB announcement, and they are both asking about routers.

As I understand it, there is no currently available WiFi standard that supports 1 Gbit/s.  N goes up to 300 Mbit/s, and ac goes up to 500 Mbit/s....

So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson, someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or Tomato.)

- Chad W. Smith



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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Dave Brockman
In reply to this post by Rod-Lists
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Hash: SHA1

On 9/17/2013 9:49 PM, Rod wrote:
> Too bad on the wrt, because if they had an old pci machine they
> could build a firewall box for a couple of bucks. (FA311's for
> $1.20 each) Wouldn't do gig but would do low end 100mbps.
>
> You may laugh at that. But for less than $3 US I can quadruple my
> net speed. That is a hell of a bargain at the moment. Sometimes you
> have to be frugal.

Friends don't let friends use Netgear.....  should have asked when you
were here :)

> On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:34:05 -0400, Chad Smith <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I've had a couple of non-lug Chattanooga friends already contact
> me about the EPB announcement, and they are both asking about
> routers.
>
> As I understand it, there is no currently available WiFi standard
> that supports 1 Gbit/s.  N goes up to 300 Mbit/s, and ac goes up
> to 500 Mbit/s....
>
> So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson,
> someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or
> Tomato.)

Thought we had this discussion a couple of weeks ago.  You aren't
"routing" or "firewalling" anything at a 1Gb unless you are dropping
lots of dollars, or dropping a multi-core PCI-e box with a few Gb of RAM.

For *routing* 1 Gb at line speed, and SG300-10 switch will forward 100
IP addresses in hardware at line rate.  I suspect from the rest of
your question you want a NAT/WiFi integrated device.  I generally
recommend separating your device functions.  Use a *wired*
firewall/NAT/Router device and use an Access Point.  Expecting 1Gb
routing/firewalling/NATing throughput on a "consumer broadband router"
is kinda like expecting that 1908 Model T to get on I-75 and get up to
70mph.

Regards,

dtb

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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

DaWorm

If the wireless rate is only 300Mbs, having a wired rate of 1Gbs doesn't make downloads any faster.


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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Benjamin Stewart
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
I have no problem streaming Netflix across the house over 802.11G, so I would consider N to be more than plenty for "normal" people, and an upgrade for me!

I would wait on AC until it doesn't cost such a premium.

Even when I had "only" 30Mbps, I found pretty consistently that my (wired) downloads were limited by the server's upload bandwidth rather than my download bandwidth.

I'll let others chime in on favorite router choices. My strategy in the past was to get the cheapest thing that would run DD-WRT or similar.

Hope this helps!


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
I know I'm far from the most tech saavy person on this list, but having googled FA311, it looks like that is just an Ethernet port.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question.  What I'm looking for are recommendations for an out-of-the-box wireless (and possibly wired as well, but focus on the wireless) router.

  • Is any off-the-shelf WiFi-N router "good enough" for most people?
  • Is 802.11ac worth the huge jump in cost (from $15~$25 for N to $90 - $300 for AC)?
  • Is the average non-geek even going to come close to 100 Mbit/s much less 1 Gbit/s under any plausible circumstances?
  • Any suggestions I can pass on to these Chattanooga-based EPB users?
Thanks.

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Rod <[hidden email]> wrote:
Too bad on the wrt, because if they had an old pci machine they could build a firewall box for a couple of bucks. (FA311's for $1.20 each)
Wouldn't do gig but would do low end 100mbps.

You may laugh at that. But for less than $3 US I can quadruple my net speed. That is a hell of a bargain at the moment.
Sometimes you have to be frugal.


On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:34:05 -0400, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had a couple of non-lug Chattanooga friends already contact me about the EPB announcement, and they are both asking about routers.

As I understand it, there is no currently available WiFi standard that supports 1 Gbit/s.  N goes up to 300 Mbit/s, and ac goes up to 500 Mbit/s....

So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson, someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or Tomato.)

- Chad W. Smith



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                              Benjamin Stewart

                               <o(((><
                               ><)))o>

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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Mike Harrison
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
> So, what routers do you all use/recommend?  (For the layperson, someone who will never, ever, ever do anything with WRT or Tomato.)

I've been impressed with the two ASUS ones I'm using, one at work and one in the office.
You want a newer model, or update the firmwre..

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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Dave Brockman
In reply to this post by Benjamin Stewart
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On 9/18/2013 8:52 AM, Benjamin Stewart wrote:
> I have no problem streaming Netflix across the house over 802.11G,
> so I would consider N to be more than plenty for "normal" people,
> and an upgrade for me!

Wifi is decent for PTP and a couple of links per radio.  Due to shared
medium access, it kinda sucks at anything beyond that if there is any
real traffic on it.

> I would wait on AC until it doesn't cost such a premium.

+1.  Dual Band N would be the preferred way to go currently.

> Even when I had "only" 30Mbps, I found pretty consistently that my
> (wired) downloads were limited by the server's upload bandwidth
> rather than my download bandwidth.

If you really want to test your circuit, head on over to "the bay" and
find yourself a 1Gb plus pr0n torrent.  Defcon material also available
via torrent can also be a good test (especially on upload), but you
won't find nearly as many downloaders or seeders just waiting on you
to join the swarm.

> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> I know I'm far from the most tech saavy person on this list, but
> having googled FA311, it looks like that is just an Ethernet port.

It is.  If it's v1, it's a horrible, horrible POS.  If it's a v2, it's
just a cheap POS.

> Maybe I wasn't clear in my question.  What I'm looking for are
> recommendations for an out-of-the-box wireless (and possibly wired
> as well, but focus on the wireless) router.
>
> * Is any off-the-shelf WiFi-N router "good enough" for most
> people?

They are all based on the same SOC cheap hardware.  If you want "good
enough" performance for one or two network nodes, then yes, whatever
cheap POS you can find will suit your needs.  No, it will not keep up
with a 100Mb or 1Gb Internet pipe.  Again, if you want a real network,
you need real equipment.

> * Is 802.11ac worth the huge jump in cost (from $15~$25 for N to
> $90 - $300 for AC)?

Value is perceived by the person holding the wallet.  For me, nope,
not worth it all.  But I'll take a cable over WiFi any day of the week.

> * Is the average non-geek even going to come close to 100 Mbit/s
> much less 1 Gbit/s under any plausible circumstances?

Nope, only when they test the needle on EPB's speedtest.

> * Any suggestions I can pass on to these Chattanooga-based EPB
> users?

If you want a real network, you need real equipment.  Out of the box
Consumer "routers" are not real equipment.  They are plug and pray
convenience boxes that focus on ease of installation rather than
performance of the hardware.

Regards,

dtb

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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Rod-Lists
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 09:42:20 -0400, Dave Brockman <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>
> It is.  If it's v1, it's a horrible, horrible POS.  If it's a v2, it's
> just a cheap POS.

Didn't say it was cutting edge. But a hardware guru I know says they work  
and and are well supported in all three os's.
And work in a pinch. I have a few gigahertz plus single cores that would  
do the trick. It beats my current bottleneck.
Not everyone can afford cisco at this time.
Wish we could.
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Re: [Chugalug] EPB Gig-City Routers

Dave Brockman
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 9/18/2013 10:23 AM, Rod wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 09:42:20 -0400, Dave Brockman
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>
>> It is.  If it's v1, it's a horrible, horrible POS.  If it's a v2,
>> it's just a cheap POS.
>
> Didn't say it was cutting edge. But a hardware guru I know says
> they work and and are well supported in all three os's. And work in
> a pinch. I have a few gigahertz plus single cores that would do the
> trick. It beats my current bottleneck. Not everyone can afford
> cisco at this time. Wish we could.

Cisco doesn't make NICs for PCs (not counting the PCI NICs used in the
PIX boxen).  But you were just at my house, and probably acquired a
few gigahertz plus single cores that day.  I have a full-sized ATX
motherboard bag full of cheap PCI NICs you could have carried off with
you for the same price! (Now it will cost you lunch :D)

Regards,

dtb
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