[Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

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[Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Stephen Kraus
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Eric Wolf
When you work for Uncle Sam, in any capacity, you have to be careful how you market yourself. And if you work anywhere near national security, you need to be extra careful especially in light of Snowden and Manning.

Just another reason to avoid Government contracts.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

David White
But the fact remains that this sets a very dangerous precedent. A "hacker" is not necessarily a bad person doing illegitimate stuff. Just do a Google search for "White Hat Hackers" and you'll get a bazillion results, including prominent names and legitimate news articles.

1 of the definitions on Google ("define: hacker") even states the following:
an enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.

(Although admittedly, the first definition that comes up is less than complimentary)

The point remains, though, that too many people - and now a court- has assumed (without much evidence) that being a self proclaimed "hacker" automatically means a bad thing.

That is absolutely false.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Eric Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
When you work for Uncle Sam, in any capacity, you have to be careful how you market yourself. And if you work anywhere near national security, you need to be extra careful especially in light of Snowden and Manning.

Just another reason to avoid Government contracts.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           <a href="tel:720-334-7734" value="+17203347734" target="_blank">720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Nonprofit Organizations Worldwide
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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Stephen Kraus

Exactly what Dave said.

It also throws hackers like me, who just repurpose hardware, cars, etc under the bus.

On Oct 22, 2013 3:51 PM, "David White" <[hidden email]> wrote:
But the fact remains that this sets a very dangerous precedent. A "hacker" is not necessarily a bad person doing illegitimate stuff. Just do a Google search for "White Hat Hackers" and you'll get a bazillion results, including prominent names and legitimate news articles.

1 of the definitions on Google ("define: hacker") even states the following:
an enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.

(Although admittedly, the first definition that comes up is less than complimentary)

The point remains, though, that too many people - and now a court- has assumed (without much evidence) that being a self proclaimed "hacker" automatically means a bad thing.

That is absolutely false.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Eric Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
When you work for Uncle Sam, in any capacity, you have to be careful how you market yourself. And if you work anywhere near national security, you need to be extra careful especially in light of Snowden and Manning.

Just another reason to avoid Government contracts.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           <a href="tel:720-334-7734" value="+17203347734" target="_blank">720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Develop CENTS 
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Nonprofit Organizations Worldwide
<a href="tel:423-693-4234" value="+14236934234" target="_blank">423-693-4234

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Eric Wolf
I understand the definitions of "hacker". Dan Lyke and I once had a company in Chattanooga named Hacker for Hire (it was even a registered corporation). But I've also worked for the government and understand that even the appearance of something bad can have negative repercussions. And that appearance is commonly judged by clueless bureaucrats and politicians. McCarthyism was probably the most extreme example we've seen, but it's hardly the only one.

And, working for the government, in a security-related context, usually involves giving up many constitutional rights. 

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

Exactly what Dave said.

It also throws hackers like me, who just repurpose hardware, cars, etc under the bus.

On Oct 22, 2013 3:51 PM, "David White" <[hidden email]> wrote:
But the fact remains that this sets a very dangerous precedent. A "hacker" is not necessarily a bad person doing illegitimate stuff. Just do a Google search for "White Hat Hackers" and you'll get a bazillion results, including prominent names and legitimate news articles.

1 of the definitions on Google ("define: hacker") even states the following:
an enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.

(Although admittedly, the first definition that comes up is less than complimentary)

The point remains, though, that too many people - and now a court- has assumed (without much evidence) that being a self proclaimed "hacker" automatically means a bad thing.

That is absolutely false.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Eric Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
When you work for Uncle Sam, in any capacity, you have to be careful how you market yourself. And if you work anywhere near national security, you need to be extra careful especially in light of Snowden and Manning.

Just another reason to avoid Government contracts.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           <a href="tel:720-334-7734" value="+17203347734" target="_blank">720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Develop CENTS 
Computing, Equipping, Networking, Training & Supporting 
Nonprofit Organizations Worldwide
<a href="tel:423-693-4234" value="+14236934234" target="_blank">423-693-4234

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

James Nylen
In reply to this post by David White
So we need a new word.

Tinker, maker, geek, ...?


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 3:47 PM, David White <[hidden email]> wrote:
But the fact remains that this sets a very dangerous precedent. A "hacker" is not necessarily a bad person doing illegitimate stuff. Just do a Google search for "White Hat Hackers" and you'll get a bazillion results, including prominent names and legitimate news articles.

1 of the definitions on Google ("define: hacker") even states the following:
an enthusiastic and skillful computer programmer or user.

(Although admittedly, the first definition that comes up is less than complimentary)

The point remains, though, that too many people - and now a court- has assumed (without much evidence) that being a self proclaimed "hacker" automatically means a bad thing.

That is absolutely false.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Eric Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
When you work for Uncle Sam, in any capacity, you have to be careful how you market yourself. And if you work anywhere near national security, you need to be extra careful especially in light of Snowden and Manning.

Just another reason to avoid Government contracts.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                           <a href="tel:720-334-7734" value="+17203347734" target="_blank">720-334-7734




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://www.digitalbond.com/blog/2013/10/22/call-yourself-a-hacker-lose-your-4th-amendment-rights/

Holy crap, so if you are a 'hacker' in the hardware sense or software sense, they are trying to set the precedent that you have basically incriminated yourself.

As both a hardware hacker and software hacker, this scares me beyond reason.

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Develop CENTS 
Computing, Equipping, Networking, Training & Supporting 
Nonprofit Organizations Worldwide
<a href="tel:423-693-4234" value="+14236934234" target="_blank">423-693-4234

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Mike Harrison
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, James Nylen wrote:

> So we need a new word.
> Tinker, maker, geek, ...?

"Mad Scientist" - Bad connotations

"Inventor" - Future Patent Trawler

"Tinker" - Tin pots and pans?

"Geek" - I get asked about my connections to GeekSquad.. I hate them.
No, I won't fix your Windows computer.

"Wonk" - Old school knowledge (know=wonk), old engineers.. know it alls..

"Hacker" - Before the movie "Hackers" (wasn't Angelina cute then...) it
was a person that hacked at a problem until the solved it.


I'm thinking of aiming for "Do-er.." as in "I Do Things".

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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Billy
Quoting Mike Harrison <[hidden email]>:

> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, James Nylen wrote:
>
>> So we need a new word.
>> Tinker, maker, geek, ...?
> I'm thinking of aiming for "Do-er.." as in "I Do Things".


WIZARD!!!!@@@!

--b


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Re: [Chugalug] [OT] Label yourself a 'Hacker', self-incriminate

Stephen Kraus

He's a warlock.

On Oct 24, 2013 10:04 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quoting Mike Harrison <[hidden email]>:

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, James Nylen wrote:

So we need a new word.
Tinker, maker, geek, ...?
I'm thinking of aiming for "Do-er.." as in "I Do Things".


WIZARD!!!!@@@!

--b


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[Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

Mike Harrison
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
> He's a warlock.

Flushy was a Warlock grade Wizard 20 years ago... but focused (as far as I
know) on the nobler more sociably responsible uses of his powers.
I don't even think his constant use of Java has turned him to the dark
side. (Yet).

I have no idea what secret powerful incantations he can muster nowadays,
in what arcane languages. But I hope for the sake of humanity, he uses
those powers for good.

-------------------------

As a community: Hackers/Makers/Doers/Wizards/Geeks/Builders/Etc..
inclusively; if we develop a new vernacular and verbage for ourselves, our
wonderful clueless government will just create a new category for our
potentially subversive and dangerous group.

It all depends on how they spin it.

Perhaps, we need to assume identies within a different sub-culture and
subvert it? Anyone want to admit that they are a Brony?

But I really think forming a religion might be the answer, we have some
prophets: Torvalds, Stallman, Cox.. and sacrements should include
encryption, compiling code, and creating divine objects as inspired by
God (3d printer optional, but required for certain observances of the
gospel. Same for machine shops, soldering irons and voyages of discovery
(taking things apart to see how they work).

The First Church of FOSS anyone? I think Gary has experience being a
Cardinal and looks good in red (especially with heels on: there are
pictures) and I already have some white robes (ala Burning Man) and would love to be Bishop..
I like the pointy hats (sans mask). But as a pudgy bald guy, I let off
Buddha vibes.

First prayer:

Let us Configure.
Make Clean.  (chant; Our souls are clean)
Make         (chant: Compile as commanded, Lord..)
Make Test.   (chant: We have been tested and found pure)
Make Install. (chant: Place us along the righteous paths you have given us)
Let us pray while invoking the commands the lord has given us.
(chant: Life is given, It lives. Amen.)


---------
I'm in Guyana S. America rigt now, I feel the urge to build a compound.. .
Kool Aid anyone ?  --Mike--












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Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

Rod-Lists
Hack the political system has been my answer for the last 30 years.
On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 09:32:09 -0400, Mike Harrison <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

-----------------------
>
> As a community: Hackers/Makers/Doers/Wizards/Geeks/Builders/Etc..  
> inclusively; if we develop a new vernacular and verbage for ourselves,  
> our wonderful clueless government will just create a new category for  
> our potentially subversive and dangerous group.
>
> It all depends on how they spin it.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

Stephen Kraus
In reply to this post by Mike Harrison

I've already converted tp the Church of Sagan.

On Oct 26, 2013 9:32 AM, "Mike Harrison" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
He's a warlock.

Flushy was a Warlock grade Wizard 20 years ago... but focused (as far as I know) on the nobler more sociably responsible uses of his powers.
I don't even think his constant use of Java has turned him to the dark side. (Yet).

I have no idea what secret powerful incantations he can muster nowadays, in what arcane languages. But I hope for the sake of humanity, he uses those powers for good.

-------------------------

As a community: Hackers/Makers/Doers/Wizards/Geeks/Builders/Etc.. inclusively; if we develop a new vernacular and verbage for ourselves, our wonderful clueless government will just create a new category for our potentially subversive and dangerous group.

It all depends on how they spin it.

Perhaps, we need to assume identies within a different sub-culture and subvert it? Anyone want to admit that they are a Brony?

But I really think forming a religion might be the answer, we have some prophets: Torvalds, Stallman, Cox.. and sacrements should include encryption, compiling code, and creating divine objects as inspired by God (3d printer optional, but required for certain observances of the gospel. Same for machine shops, soldering irons and voyages of discovery (taking things apart to see how they work).

The First Church of FOSS anyone? I think Gary has experience being a Cardinal and looks good in red (especially with heels on: there are pictures) and I already have some white robes (ala Burning Man) and would love to be Bishop..
I like the pointy hats (sans mask). But as a pudgy bald guy, I let off Buddha vibes.

First prayer:

Let us Configure.
Make Clean.  (chant; Our souls are clean)
Make         (chant: Compile as commanded, Lord..)
Make Test.   (chant: We have been tested and found pure) Make Install. (chant: Place us along the righteous paths you have given us)
Let us pray while invoking the commands the lord has given us.
(chant: Life is given, It lives. Amen.)


---------
I'm in Guyana S. America rigt now, I feel the urge to build a compound.. .
Kool Aid anyone ?  --Mike--












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Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

Ed King
as a Slackware fanboy I suppose I'm already a member of the Church of the Subgenius


From: Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]>
To: CHUGALUG <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

I've already converted tp the Church of Sagan.
On Oct 26, 2013 9:32 AM, "Mike Harrison" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
He's a warlock.

<snip>
>The First Church of FOSS anyone?


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Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

John Aldrich
In reply to this post by Mike Harrison
Quoting Mike Harrison <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, 24 Oct 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>> He's a warlock.
>
> Flushy was a Warlock grade Wizard 20 years ago... but focused (as far
> as I know) on the nobler more sociably responsible uses of his powers.
> I don't even think his constant use of Java has turned him to the dark
> side. (Yet).
>
> I have no idea what secret powerful incantations he can muster
> nowadays, in what arcane languages. But I hope for the sake of
> humanity, he uses those powers for good.
>
> -------------------------
>
> As a community: Hackers/Makers/Doers/Wizards/Geeks/Builders/Etc..
> inclusively; if we develop a new vernacular and verbage for ourselves,
> our wonderful clueless government will just create a new category for
> our potentially subversive and dangerous group.
>
> It all depends on how they spin it.
>
> Perhaps, we need to assume identies within a different sub-culture and
> subvert it? Anyone want to admit that they are a Brony?
>
> But I really think forming a religion might be the answer, we have some
> prophets: Torvalds, Stallman, Cox.. and sacrements should include
> encryption, compiling code, and creating divine objects as inspired by
> God (3d printer optional, but required for certain observances of the
> gospel. Same for machine shops, soldering irons and voyages of
> discovery (taking things apart to see how they work).
>
> The First Church of FOSS anyone? I think Gary has experience being a
> Cardinal and looks good in red (especially with heels on: there are
> pictures) and I already have some white robes (ala Burning Man) and
> would love to be Bishop..
> I like the pointy hats (sans mask). But as a pudgy bald guy, I let off
> Buddha vibes.
>
> First prayer:
>
> Let us Configure.
> Make Clean.  (chant; Our souls are clean)
> Make         (chant: Compile as commanded, Lord..)
> Make Test.   (chant: We have been tested and found pure) Make Install.
> (chant: Place us along the righteous paths you have given us)
> Let us pray while invoking the commands the lord has given us.
> (chant: Life is given, It lives. Amen.)
>
>
> ---------
> I'm in Guyana S. America rigt now, I feel the urge to build a compound.. .
> Kool Aid anyone ?  --Mike--
>
>
Well, I'm already an ordained (ULC) minister, but I don't suppose that  
would conflict with the First Church of FOSS! :D
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Re: [Chugalug] First Church of FOSS.

Mike Harrison
> Well, I'm already an ordained (ULC) minister, but I don't suppose that would
> conflict with the First Church of FOSS! :D

Thanks to Larry Burton, I'm also ULC. Ordained.. Even done some weddings.
Nancy and I were married by a ULC "minister"... who obtained it just for
our wedding, and continued to do it for several others.




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