[Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

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[Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Phil Shapiro

  The Raspberry Pi has sold almost 2 million units.  It looks like it's on track to sell more units than the venerable Apple II.   When I was an Apple II software developer in the early 1990's, I recall Apple advertising that 6 million Apple II's had been sold. 

    If anyone in the LUG is so inclined, it would be interesting to create side by side comparison charts on the approximate sales growth curve for these two computers.  It took Apple 16 years to sell 6 million Apple II's.  Raspberry Pi Foundation might achieve that goal in 4 years (or less).

     Linux is unstoppable.    #unstoppable

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Chad Smith
Talk about comparing Apples and Raspberries.... Not even close to the same.

The Apple ][ cost $1298 in 1977.  That would be around $4575 in 2012, when the Raspberry came out for $25.

So, yeah, a $25 item is selling faster than a $4500 item - in a time when computers are far more mainstream than they were 35 years ago.  That's not exactly shocking.

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Phil Shapiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

  The Raspberry Pi has sold almost 2 million units.  It looks like it's on track to sell more units than the venerable Apple II.   When I was an Apple II software developer in the early 1990's, I recall Apple advertising that 6 million Apple II's had been sold. 

    If anyone in the LUG is so inclined, it would be interesting to create side by side comparison charts on the approximate sales growth curve for these two computers.  It took Apple 16 years to sell 6 million Apple II's.  Raspberry Pi Foundation might achieve that goal in 4 years (or less).

     Linux is unstoppable.    #unstoppable

            phil

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

willmwade
Administrator
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Tim Youngblood
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Benjamin Stewart
Another factor to consider is the novelty of the Pi. Not that it's the very first or only tiny, inexpensive, hackable PC of its kind, but it does represent a different paradigm from what people are used to.

Kind of like the iPhone/iPad "revolution." They're selling like hotcakes because "I don't have one of THOSE yet!"


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Tim Youngblood <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Stephen Kraus
In reply to this post by Tim Youngblood

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

John Aldrich
In reply to this post by Benjamin Stewart
Quoting Benjamin Stewart <[hidden email]>:

> Another factor to consider is the novelty of the Pi. Not that it's the very
> first or only tiny, inexpensive, hackable PC of its kind, but it does
> represent a different paradigm from what people are used to.
>
> Kind of like the iPhone/iPad "revolution." They're selling like hotcakes
> because "I don't have one of THOSE yet!"
>
>
On a slightly related note, how many phone upgrades are done just to  
get "the latest and greatest smartphone"? How many "Linux phones" do  
you think will get sold if and when a true Linux phone is ever put on  
the market?
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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Chad Smith
In reply to this post by willmwade
Why wouldn't I count them?  They are using a computer.  They bought a computer and are using it - probably on a daily basis - far more often than any but the most diehard of users did in 1977.

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Nick Smith
In reply to this post by John Aldrich
That would depend on if they "just work" and "if there is an app for that".....


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:50 PM, John Aldrich <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quoting Benjamin Stewart <[hidden email]>:

Another factor to consider is the novelty of the Pi. Not that it's the very
first or only tiny, inexpensive, hackable PC of its kind, but it does
represent a different paradigm from what people are used to.

Kind of like the iPhone/iPad "revolution." They're selling like hotcakes
because "I don't have one of THOSE yet!"


On a slightly related note, how many phone upgrades are done just to get "the latest and greatest smartphone"? How many "Linux phones" do you think will get sold if and when a true Linux phone is ever put on the market?

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Chad Smith
In reply to this post by Stephen Kraus
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Stephen Kraus

Surface Pro is not a PC because it is not x86 compatible, at least that is my definition.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:21 PM, "Chad Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Chad Smith
The Surface Pro 2 is running a 4th generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processor.

The Surface is not x64 - but the Pro is.  Or are x64 desktops not PCs?


- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

Surface Pro is not a PC because it is not x86 compatible, at least that is my definition.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:21 PM, "Chad Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Benjamin Stewart
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
That definition is a little narrow--by that definition many of the PCs (and Macs and, ahem, Apple ][s) of yore are not PCs.

How about a novel definition?

"A PC is a general-purpose client computing device, usually having a mouse and keyboard attached, which is geared more toward creating content than consuming it."

This is not to say that a PC isn't great for consuming content, but a mobile device is generally terrible at it.

We have a Surface Pro being passed around at work. To my knowledge, no one has yet used it to "work."



On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Stephen Kraus
In reply to this post by Chad Smith

Ah, my mistake. Its a PC then. Too bad it has Intel Graphics.

Intel should just stop doing their integrated graphics, team up with Nvidia like ATI/AMD and go that route.

I thought you were talking about the other Surface.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:36 PM, "Chad Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Surface Pro 2 is running a 4th generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processor.

The Surface is not x64 - but the Pro is.  Or are x64 desktops not PCs?


- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

Surface Pro is not a PC because it is not x86 compatible, at least that is my definition.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:21 PM, "Chad Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Stephen Kraus
In reply to this post by Benjamin Stewart

PC to me implies IBM compatible, while Apple's of yore were personal computers, they were not PCs with their PowerPC CPUs.

If I can install any flavor of x86 or x86-64 os, then its a PC to me, new macs fall under this too.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:51 PM, "Benjamin Stewart" <[hidden email]> wrote:
That definition is a little narrow--by that definition many of the PCs (and Macs and, ahem, Apple ][s) of yore are not PCs.

How about a novel definition?

"A PC is a general-purpose client computing device, usually having a mouse and keyboard attached, which is geared more toward creating content than consuming it."

This is not to say that a PC isn't great for consuming content, but a mobile device is generally terrible at it.

We have a Surface Pro being passed around at work. To my knowledge, no one has yet used it to "work."



On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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                               ><)))o>

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Benjamin Stewart
Fair enough. In that case, what is your classification for Amiga, C-64, TRS-80, Acorn(from which is descended the Pi), etc.?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC to me implies IBM compatible, while Apple's of yore were personal computers, they were not PCs with their PowerPC CPUs.

If I can install any flavor of x86 or x86-64 os, then its a PC to me, new macs fall under this too.

On Nov 5, 2013 1:51 PM, "Benjamin Stewart" <[hidden email]> wrote:
That definition is a little narrow--by that definition many of the PCs (and Macs and, ahem, Apple ][s) of yore are not PCs.

How about a novel definition?

"A PC is a general-purpose client computing device, usually having a mouse and keyboard attached, which is geared more toward creating content than consuming it."

This is not to say that a PC isn't great for consuming content, but a mobile device is generally terrible at it.

We have a Surface Pro being passed around at work. To my knowledge, no one has yet used it to "work."



On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10 years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

- Chad W. Smith


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

PC's death gets forcasted like every other year now.

On Nov 5, 2013 11:36 AM, "Tim Youngblood" <[hidden email]> wrote:
All that aside (thanks for saving me the words Chad) the most vital aspect is that PC sales penetration into homes had flattened out over the past decade.

Now here we are with a device that could break through the price issue. The question is whether it is one of price, or one of culture? I'm voting the latter.

Tim


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Wil Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
in a time when computers are far more mainstream

Computers are only mainstream if you count all the people who cannot open theirs.

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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

John Aldrich
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
Quoting Chad Smith <[hidden email]>:

> Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?
>
> I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10
> years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested
> to see how many are using a desktop at home today.
>
> But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of
> form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.
>
> I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What
> about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel
> Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?
>
> *- Chad W. Smith*
>
Good point, Chad. I know that I currently have a Windows XP machine  
here at work. With the soon-to-be death of Windows XP, the company is  
looking at two options: 1) new Windows 7 PCs for some and 2)thin  
clients for others. I have no idea which of those I'll be getting, but  
you can bet a lot of people in the company will be getting thin  
clients. Is a thin client a "PC"???
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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Stephen Kraus

Yes, a x86 based thin client is a PC.

On Nov 5, 2013 4:06 PM, "John Aldrich" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quoting Chad Smith <[hidden email]>:

Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10
years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested
to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of
form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What
about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel
Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

*- Chad W. Smith*

Good point, Chad. I know that I currently have a Windows XP machine here at work. With the soon-to-be death of Windows XP, the company is looking at two options: 1) new Windows 7 PCs for some and 2)thin clients for others. I have no idea which of those I'll be getting, but you can bet a lot of people in the company will be getting thin clients. Is a thin client a "PC"???
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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Tim Youngblood


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Stephen Kraus <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes, a x86 based thin client is a PC.

On Nov 5, 2013 4:06 PM, "John Aldrich" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quoting Chad Smith <[hidden email]>:

Depends on your definition of a PC.  Is a PC a desktop?

I highly doubt the average person will be using a desktop computer in 10
years, or even 5.  At least not outside of the office.  I'd be interested
to see how many are using a desktop at home today.

But if you define it as an X86 machine, or a X64 machine, regardless of
form factor, then it will probably be a lot longer.

I mean, let me put it this way - is a Microsoft Surface Pro a "PC"?  What
about the XP phone from a few years back?  If a smartphone runs on an Intel
Atom chip - is it a smartphone or a PC?

*- Chad W. Smith*

Good point, Chad. I know that I currently have a Windows XP machine here at work. With the soon-to-be death of Windows XP, the company is looking at two options: 1) new Windows 7 PCs for some and 2)thin clients for others. I have no idea which of those I'll be getting, but you can bet a lot of people in the company will be getting thin clients. Is a thin client a "PC"???
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Re: [Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Dave Brockman
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Hash: SHA1

On 11/6/2013 10:52 AM, Tim Youngblood wrote:
> Is the PC dead? It is on life support.
>
> http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2013/11/5/mobile-is-eating-the-world-autumn-2013-edition

Anyone
>
know anyone buying phones or tablets to replace computers?  In
my experience, all we are seeing are these things: New shiny gadgets
are selling.  Powerful enough PCs of a 4-5 year old vintage aren't
being replaced as quickly as in prior years, no new OS to drive bigger
and better hardware specs.  Anyone have differing experience?

Regards,

dtb
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