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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

DaWorm
I use LibreOffice on my linux machines and it's ok for small stuff.  But like the OP, I've found it really doesn't cut it when you want to do anything even just fairly complicated, for both Write and Calc.  Some things that are relatively easy in Word or Excel just can't be done yet in Write or Calc.  It's getting better, and for most personal use is just fine.  But many of the moderately complex layouts or data manipulation I've tried it just isn't possible.  It's not that the capabilities are hard to find, they just don't exist.

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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Rod-Lists
In reply to this post by kitepilot
 From what I read it is the spreadsheet that gets people. The Write or comp  
part is doable.
My question is everyone knows that excel users are using it as a mini db,  
how much of those issues are due to that?
In other words is your brother trying to do something that LO/OO thinks  
should be done in Base?

Also as others pointed out there are work flow differences as there are  
with many commercial office suites.
He would have issues if tried to go to wordperfect or Amipro.
Didn't mean they didn't have feature set, they just went about it  
differently.
I had that issue when my old job just decided I was going for WP to MS  
office for no other reason than it was what was installed on the new  
machine.
Screwed my work flow for a while.

On the other hand your hermano may be one of those power users who uses  
the obscure feature set that MS has that no else does.
Can't tell until we have an example. Tho spreadsheets wern't my forte.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office#Spreadsheet_applications:_LibreOffice_Calc_vs._Microsoft_Excel





On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:53:26 -0400, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So I talked my brother into ditching Micro$haft and moving to Linux.
> Baaaad idea... The man uses Excel *HEAVILY*, and LibreOffice just could  
> not keep up.
> But it was not lack of features or limitations, it was *STUPID* (but  
> dangerous) things like cells not showing the real value and/or  
> recalculating wrong. I didn't take his word for it, he showed me the  
> (unbelievable) problems (I could not believe what I was seeing).
> The guy is back to Excel...
> What am I missing?
> ET
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug


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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Chad Smith
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.

That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no **computer** program should ever get wrong.

COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.

I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.

- Chad W. Smith

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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Dan Lyke
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
> said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.

My interpretation was that it's likely that by "did math wrong" he
meant "didn't import the Excel formulas correctly". I'd have to know
more before I made a judgement; I've yet to catch Libre/OpenOffice
mucking up spreadsheet calculations, but I also have done my
spreadsheets solely in those tools.

Which goes back to my observation that LibreOffice has been fine for
me as long as I never tried to interoperate with Microsoft files. As
soon as I did that, I had to be veeeery careful.

Dan
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Justin W Elam

I first started using Lotus123, and WordPerfect on an IBM /os/2 PC  compatible machine in the late 1980's. 

Unfortunately, some people like to use Excel instead of a DB like mySQL, postgreSQL, noSQL, or SQL lite.

They also like to use Excel instead of R, SAS, And SPSS for statistical analysis.

Below are some resources showing how bad EXCEL is for statistical analysis.

Most the time, a LaTeX, R, SQL lite solution is better than using EXCEL.

Your mileage may vary, here are some resources for your perusal

https://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jcryer/JSMTalk2001.pdf

http://andrewgelman.com/2013/04/17/excel-bashing/

http://forecastingprinciples.com/files/McCullough.pdf

http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/wiki/pub/Main/TheresaScott/StatsInExcel.TAScott.slides.pdf

http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/wiki/Main/ExcelProblems

http://www.csdassn.org/software_reports/gnumeric.pdf

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/researchers-finally-replicated-reinhart-rogoff-and-there-are-serious-problems

http://baselinescenario.com/2013/02/09/the-importance-of-excel/

http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/Tutor/spreadsheet_addiction.html

http://www.rucares.org/Course/Excel.ppv

http://www.gre.ac.uk/~cd02/eusprig/

http://www.agresearch.cri.nz/Science/Statistics/exceluse.htm

http://www.amstat.org/publications/tas/mccull-1.pdf

http://www.amstat.org/publications/tas/mccull.pdf

http://www.daheiser.info/excel/frontpage.html

Cheers
Justin

--
-----------------------------
Justin W Elam
E-mail ::: [hidden email]
###


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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Tom Wilson
In reply to this post by Dan Eveland
On 9/27/13 1:59 PM, Dan Eveland wrote:
> I really want LibreOffice to work for me. But it just sucks so bad
> once you dig into past a little memo or small spreadsheet. I try it
> out every major update. It has never failed to let me down in some
> small or large way every time I try to complete a (not-simple)
> document. Of course, my requirements are my own and your millage may vary.
>

It really does boil down to your usage and expectations.

My wife has written 19 books using Open/LibreOffice and the only
complaint is mine as it exports the ugliest HTML I have ever seen. Makes
conversion to *proper* EPUB & MOBI an annoyance. VIM and some custom
plugins ease the pain somewhat. Fortunately, submissions for
print-on-demand are PDF so there's no trouble there.

Personally, I used to swear by Office until the day it decided I had to
buy a new license before I re-installed it. (Hard drive failure and
subsequent replacing and repaving)  I can very easily afford it and,
yes, I know a call to Microsoft would likely be all that is required
anyway. Not interested in calling some peon in Bangladesh (or anywhere
else for that matter) to ask if I may please use my software again
pretty please. It's not going to happen - ever.

As far as the spreadsheet inadequacies are concerned, I don't think
anyone who uses spreadsheets in a serious capacity would claim
Libre/OpenOffice calc has anything approaching parity let alone
superiority to Excel. The only complicated spreadsheet I ever used was
mangled by calc. Fortunately, it was for Eve Online...so.....it wasn't
what you would call a deal-breaker. I just re-did it so it worked again
(Then promptly stopped playing Eve Online because I no longer have the
time for that sort of thing)

I'd liken serious mathematical modeling in calc to implementing an
interstate overpass with Legos. (Apple Numbers? - TinkerToys) - Finding
an alternative route would be my first order of business.







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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Rod-Lists
In reply to this post by Justin W Elam
But sir your talking about the international business standard!
;P


On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:01:05 -0400, Justin W Elam <[hidden email]> wrote:

I first started using Lotus123, and WordPerfect on an IBM /os/2 PC  compatible machine in the late 1980's. 

Unfortunately, some people like to use Excel instead of a DB like mySQL, postgreSQL, noSQL, or SQL lite.

They also like to use Excel instead of R, SAS, And SPSS for statistical analysis.

Below are some resources showing how bad EXCEL is for statistical analysis.

Most the time, a LaTeX, R, SQL lite solution is better than using EXCEL.

Your mileage may vary, here are some resources for your perusal

https://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jcryer/JSMTalk2001.pdf

http://andrewgelman.com/2013/04/17/excel-bashing/

http://forecastingprinciples.com/files/McCullough.pdf

http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/wiki/pub/Main/TheresaScott/StatsInExcel.TAScott.slides.pdf

http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/wiki/Main/ExcelProblems

http://www.csdassn.org/software_reports/gnumeric.pdf

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/researchers-finally-replicated-reinhart-rogoff-and-there-are-serious-problems

http://baselinescenario.com/2013/02/09/the-importance-of-excel/

http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/Tutor/spreadsheet_addiction.html

http://www.rucares.org/Course/Excel.ppv

http://www.gre.ac.uk/~cd02/eusprig/

http://www.agresearch.cri.nz/Science/Statistics/exceluse.htm

http://www.amstat.org/publications/tas/mccull-1.pdf

http://www.amstat.org/publications/tas/mccull.pdf

http://www.daheiser.info/excel/frontpage.html

Cheers
Justin

--
-----------------------------
Justin W Elam
E-mail ::: [hidden email]
###





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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

kitepilot
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
Just to clarify:
> the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a
bad result.

This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

 

Chad Smith writes:

> Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
> said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
>
> That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
> people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
> **computer** program should ever get wrong.
>
> COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
> language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
> is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
>
> I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
> source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
> Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
> to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
>
> *- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

wes
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Chad Smith
Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

William D. Roush
In reply to this post by Mike Harrison
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.

Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Chad Smith
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Chad Smith
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

wes
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
I don't think he's lying at all! I am simply curious about the failure. His claim flies in the face of my (and others') experience with Calc. So in my perspective, I have to choose which seems more likely to me: that Calc failed in some basic fundamental way, or that ET might have made mistakes in his input.

-wes


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

wes
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
That's right, when trying to convince someone to use open source software, we should proclaim it a failure and do nothing to help the situation.

Troll.

-wes


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Chad Smith
It shouldn't *BE* broken.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 1:07 PM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's right, when trying to convince someone to use open source software, we should proclaim it a failure and do nothing to help the situation.

Troll.

-wes


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Stephen Kraus
In reply to this post by wes
OpenOffice works awesome for me in my Physics and Math classes, because it comes with a formula writer and layout program, makes it so much easier than having to try writing up a couple pages worth of formulas.

Its done well for me in every other category too.


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:07 PM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's right, when trying to convince someone to use open source software, we should proclaim it a failure and do nothing to help the situation.

Troll.

-wes


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

Jason Brown
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (or proof depending on who you quote).

I use Libre Office on Ubuntu daily for manipulating and fixing all kinds of data. I have never had it, "do math wrong".  I have however had it completely fail to import Microsoft Excel files with complex formatting.

The fundamental way that spreadsheets handle math could easily be the issue, for example most spreadsheets interpret a string as a literal zero, if a column is incorrectly formatted this could produce an incorrect result. Range errors , auto range extension, filters, and formula processing order can also skew the results.

If the spreadsheet is so complicated, it probably shouldn't be a spreadsheet in the first place.  Some of the links posted by Justin have quite strong arguments in that regard.

I would be willing to bet lunch for one (loser buys) that the issue is not a math bug in Calc, but some other issue inherent to spreadsheets or import / user error.

--Jason

On 9/28/13 2:38 PM, Stephen Kraus wrote:
OpenOffice works awesome for me in my Physics and Math classes, because it comes with a formula writer and layout program, makes it so much easier than having to try writing up a couple pages worth of formulas.

Its done well for me in every other category too.


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:07 PM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's right, when trying to convince someone to use open source software, we should proclaim it a failure and do nothing to help the situation.

Troll.

-wes


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

William D. Roush
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
Could be a mistake on his/his friend's part, should be reported, the details would be interesting (considering lots of us use it and haven't run into this).

As an open source developer, it kind of irks me to spread FUD, especially with no details on how to reproduce.
William Roush

On 9/28/2013 1:56 PM, Chad Smith wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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Re: [Chugalug] Is LibreOffice *THAT* bad? :(

William D. Roush
In reply to this post by Chad Smith
But as a user of that open source software, you should give back to the community that is providing their skills for free by at least filing the bug with reproduction steps.
William Roush

On 9/28/2013 1:58 PM, Chad Smith wrote:
Also, when you are trying to convince someone to switch to open source software, the last thing you should have to do is stop in the middle of it and file a bug report.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't some Microsoft shill.  ET has been on this list for a long time.  Why would he lie?

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 PM, William Roush <[hidden email]> wrote:
You want evidence to huge claims? That's absurd! I can't be bothered to back them up.

Also how about a bug number instead... You know doing the right thing for open source software you get for free and reporting issues.


Chad Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yeah, because everyone remembers every math problem they ever did.

- Chad W. Smith


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:32 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just to clarify:

the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
means just that.
No excel import, no weird things here.
This was freshly created (albeit complex) spreadsheet.
Cells would display wrong numbers or not at all.
I could position the cursor in a cell and see a simple formula yielding a bad result.
This were problems that you'd figure basic testing would catch.
It was, in short, completely unreliable...   :(
ET

if it was just a simple formula, you should be able to give us the formula.

-wes
 


Chad Smith writes:
Everyone who going to bat for LibreOffice - did you miss the part where ET
said that the program *DID MATH WRONG*.
That's not some "obscure feature set" needed only by "power users" or
people who are afraid of change.... That's the one thing that no
**computer** program should ever get wrong.
COMPUTER...  it computes.  That is its original intention.  It's native
language is 1s and 0s.  A computer spreadsheet that can't do math correctly
is not just useless - it's dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.
I like the idea of Libre/Open Office.  It is what introduced me to open
source as being a thing that exists.  But if Calc (the name of the
Spreadsheet mode of the program) can't Calculate - it shouldn't be allowed
to continue to exist... not until they fix that.  omg.
*- Chad W. Smith*
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