[Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

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[Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

David Welch
My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.   

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David Welch


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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Mike Harrison-4

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.  

“carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.

 
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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

John Aldrich-3
Correct. Had a client with a similar problem. Client called EPB when we
couldn't SSH in from outside, EPB changed their IP and voila' it worked.
:)

--
  John Aldrich
  [hidden email]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017, at 07:01 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:

>
> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.  
>
> “carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than
> generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So
> far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
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> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug
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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

David White-2
For clarification, John and Mike have already alluded to this but.... 

You need to specifically request a non-NAT IP address. EPB is always helpful and does this very quickly. Simply changing the IP address (including bouncing or replacing the gateway) won't necessarily work.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:06 AM, John Aldrich <[hidden email]> wrote:
Correct. Had a client with a similar problem. Client called EPB when we
couldn't SSH in from outside, EPB changed their IP and voila' it worked.
:)

--
  John Aldrich
  [hidden email]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017, at 07:01 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.
>
> “carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than
> generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So
> far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug
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David White

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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Unkmar
Yeah, I carefully took care of that when our EPB was first installed at home a few years ago.  I made sure the router/modem whatever was in bridged mode.  I informed them I have my own router/firewall.  Was easy, no headache, no complaint.  Our EPB service men have always been great.  Helpful, understanding and NOT pushy.  I have nothing but praises for the few I have encountered.

Lucius L. Hilley III

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:13 AM, David White <[hidden email]> wrote:
For clarification, John and Mike have already alluded to this but.... 

You need to specifically request a non-NAT IP address. EPB is always helpful and does this very quickly. Simply changing the IP address (including bouncing or replacing the gateway) won't necessarily work.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:06 AM, John Aldrich <[hidden email]> wrote:
Correct. Had a client with a similar problem. Client called EPB when we
couldn't SSH in from outside, EPB changed their IP and voila' it worked.
:)

--
  John Aldrich
  [hidden email]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017, at 07:01 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.
>
> “carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than
> generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So
> far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug
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--
David White

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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Michael Scholten
Starting with praises…. I agree. EPB has always been wonderful when I've talked with them. When I worked with Orange Grove Center we had most of the ~70 group homes around the Chattanooga area with EPB. It was great to be able to talk with a local tech within a minute usually and often have an answer within a couple minutes. <cringe> Unlike Compcast before that. </cringe>

Anywho, I should probably know the answer to this already but… For the wondering mind(s). Why do I want to make this NAT change? And I assume this is for residential…

-Michael



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 2:37 PM, Unkmar [hidden email] wrote:
Yeah, I carefully took care of that when our EPB was first installed at home a few years ago.  I made sure the router/modem whatever was in bridged mode.  I informed them I have my own router/firewall.  Was easy, no headache, no complaint.  Our EPB service men have always been great.  Helpful, understanding and NOT pushy.  I have nothing but praises for the few I have encountered.

Lucius L. Hilley III

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:13 AM, David White <[hidden email]> wrote:
For clarification, John and Mike have already alluded to this but.... 

You need to specifically request a non-NAT IP address. EPB is always helpful and does this very quickly. Simply changing the IP address (including bouncing or replacing the gateway) won't necessarily work.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:06 AM, John Aldrich <[hidden email]> wrote:
Correct. Had a client with a similar problem. Client called EPB when we
couldn't SSH in from outside, EPB changed their IP and voila' it worked.
:)

--
  John Aldrich
  [hidden email]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017, at 07:01 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.
>
> “carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than
> generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So
> far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug



--
David White

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-Michael
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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

John Dills
Do you mean the reason behind having EPB disable NAT or why EPB decided to enable NAT?

The decision to use NAT was due to IPv4 depletion. The decision to disable NAT is if you have something you need to access outside of your home (servers, security cameras, etc) or if it negatively impacts your activities (like gaming or P2P). Though, honestly, we haven't had much negative feedback/requests to disable NAT from people who just game, of course, I don't really deal with resi customers anymore.

And yes, it only affects residential.

On Jun 29, 2017 17:32, "Michael Scholten" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Starting with praises…. I agree. EPB has always been wonderful when I've talked with them. When I worked with Orange Grove Center we had most of the ~70 group homes around the Chattanooga area with EPB. It was great to be able to talk with a local tech within a minute usually and often have an answer within a couple minutes. <cringe> Unlike Compcast before that. </cringe>

Anywho, I should probably know the answer to this already but… For the wondering mind(s). Why do I want to make this NAT change? And I assume this is for residential…

-Michael



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 2:37 PM, Unkmar [hidden email] wrote:
Yeah, I carefully took care of that when our EPB was first installed at home a few years ago.  I made sure the router/modem whatever was in bridged mode.  I informed them I have my own router/firewall.  Was easy, no headache, no complaint.  Our EPB service men have always been great.  Helpful, understanding and NOT pushy.  I have nothing but praises for the few I have encountered.

Lucius L. Hilley III

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:13 AM, David White <[hidden email]> wrote:
For clarification, John and Mike have already alluded to this but.... 

You need to specifically request a non-NAT IP address. EPB is always helpful and does this very quickly. Simply changing the IP address (including bouncing or replacing the gateway) won't necessarily work.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 11:06 AM, John Aldrich <[hidden email]> wrote:
Correct. Had a client with a similar problem. Client called EPB when we
couldn't SSH in from outside, EPB changed their IP and voila' it worked.
:)

--
  John Aldrich
  [hidden email]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017, at 07:01 PM, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:45 PM, David Welch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My WAN address at home changed and the work VPN started mysteriously, uh, working after weeks of problems. Don't think I changed anything. I had been meaning to call EPB and ask if my troubles were related to the carrier-grade NAT. Maybe it's been worked out now.
>
> “carrier grade” NAT is still NAT. If you are doing anything other than
> generic consumer-ish web browsing/email, you need to get off of it. So
> far, they (EPB) seems to be pretty nice about it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chugalug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug
_______________________________________________
Chugalug mailing list
[hidden email]
http://chugalug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chugalug



--
David White

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-Michael

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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Dave Brockman
In reply to this post by Michael Scholten
Forwarding to list, don't know why I'm having such Reply-To issues these
days.... /sigh

On 6/29/2017 5:32 PM, Michael Scholten wrote:
> Anywho, I should probably know the answer to this already but… For the
> wondering mind(s). Why do I want to make this NAT change? And I assume
> this is for residential…

CGN/LSN gives you a private IP address on your WAN interface.  The ISP
equipment then performs a PAT for a specific range of ports on their
actual public IP address to your private IP address.  You can't port
forward anything, you can use IPSec and other VPN technologies, there is
a performance penalty associated with stateful tracking versus hardware
routing (which you may or may not notice, depending on your own network
and resi is, at the end of the day, best effort anyway).  If you just
stream Netflix all day, you shouldn't care.  If you need to connect to a
VPN or need anything to reach back to you, you should request to be
moved off the CGN/LSN.

Regards,

dtb




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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Dave Brockman
In reply to this post by John Dills
On 6/29/2017 5:55 PM, John Dills wrote:
> Do you mean the reason behind having EPB disable NAT or why EPB decided
> to enable NAT?
>
> The decision to use NAT was due to IPv4 depletion. The decision to

Still waiting for an IPv6 address to show up on my WAN interface.  I
know EPB has an allocation/assignment, I hope not just to route SAU's
prefix :P

> disable NAT is if you have something you need to access outside of your
> home (servers, security cameras, etc) or if it negatively impacts your
> activities (like gaming or P2P). Though, honestly, we haven't had much
> negative feedback/requests to disable NAT from people who just game, of
> course, I don't really deal with resi customers anymore.

Most games are going to be UDP based and more likely to have issues with
duplicate IP addresses than the actual NAT itself.  Gaming communities
have been dealing with NAT for ~25 years or so, most of the good ones
have ways of dealing with it.  We had to :(

> And yes, it only affects residential.

Has EPB implemented RFC 6887 (PCP) ?

Regards,

dtb


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Re: [Chugalug] something changed on the EPB network?

Michael Scholten
I do run a few personal servers from home. Granted they are not serving anything to public presently aside from a minecraft server for the family every now and then.

I did have a problem a couple months ago where I couldn't reach any of my servers at home, for about a month or so, like I had been for the past couple years but I chalking that up to something funny on my firewall. Ended up reloading the OS and uploading a backup which seemed to fix it. Can't put my finger on what caused the lack of connectivity.

Speaking of IPv6. Whats the likelihood of EPB (or any other ISP for that matter) giving us a static IPv6 address for free? If we were to get an address would we be able to use it presently? That is, as a direct replacement for IPv4. It would be nice not to have to use no-ip/dyn to forward to my current IPv4 dynamic address and point my domain name to a static IPv6 instead.



On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 6:09 PM, Dave Brockman [hidden email] wrote:

On 6/29/2017 5:55 PM, John Dills wrote:

> Do you mean the reason behind having EPB disable NAT or why EPB decided

> to enable NAT?

>

> The decision to use NAT was due to IPv4 depletion. The decision to


Still waiting for an IPv6 address to show up on my WAN interface. I

know EPB has an allocation/assignment, I hope not just to route SAU's

prefix :P


> disable NAT is if you have something you need to access outside of your

> home (servers, security cameras, etc) or if it negatively impacts your

> activities (like gaming or P2P). Though, honestly, we haven't had much

> negative feedback/requests to disable NAT from people who just game, of

> course, I don't really deal with resi customers anymore.


Most games are going to be UDP based and more likely to have issues with

duplicate IP addresses than the actual NAT itself. Gaming communities

have been dealing with NAT for ~25 years or so, most of the good ones

have ways of dealing with it. We had to :(


> And yes, it only affects residential.


Has EPB implemented RFC 6887 (PCP) ?


Regards,


dtb


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-Michael
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